American Daughters: Reflections On Being Muslim in America

Thu, 06/29/2006 - 12:19pm

When: April 22, 2010 at the Downtown Library: Multi-Purpose Room

Featuring Heather Laird and co-sponsored by the Interfaith Council for Peace and Justice, this event will feature speakers who will discuss being Muslim in America from their own experiences and local perspectives. Discussion will center on the diversity of our community, how Muslims deal with the issues of multiculturalism, and the tensions and barriers that exist in tackling this issue both within the Muslim community and the broader community. How these issues affect youth as well as adults will also be a focus of this important discussion.Heather Laird is the Director for the Summer Arabic Institute, and a Fellow for the Institute of Social Policy and Understanding (ISPU). Heather will be joined in this discussion by several area Muslim women.

Transcript

• [00:00:21.08] My name is Beth Manuel and I'd like to introduce Tamar Weaver who represents the common ground committee of the interfaith council for peace and justice and she organized this program tonight. So welcome, Tamar, to you.
• [00:00:35.18] TAMAR WEAVER: Hi, as-salaamu 'alaikum. This event is organized by the common ground committee of the Interfaith Council for Peace and Justice, ICPJ. And I'm a member of the common ground committee. The idea for this event happened when we had the main speaker, Heather Laird she was in our general meeting and spoke shortly, like for five minutes about the subject and we were so interested in it that we asked after and she said OK she would give us a whole event. Heather organized the very first sound that you hear when you read the names. And she introduce each one of them when they speak. I will introduce Heather now. She's our main speaker and organizer with me. Heather Laird she has her MBA from Indiana University, Bloomington in political science in Arabic science and Arabic and Islamic studies. She has her MBA with a non-profit management concentration and public management certificate from Eastern Michigan University. She is the director for the Summit Arabic Institute and a fellow of the institute of social policy and understanding, ISPU. She has her own consulting group, Laird and associates. She also writes for the religious and spirituality section of examiner.com. Last moment news-- Heather just became a board member of the ICPJ, of our organization. OK, now, Heather.
• [00:02:34.79] HEATHER LAIRD: Tamar. As-salaam 'alaikum, I greet you with the universal greetings of all the salaams, it means peace and blessings to all of you. We are really blessed as a Muslim community to have such a very diverse population. Diverse meaning the attributes that set us apart from one another, as well as a vast variation in cultural backgrounds. Although we are not monolithic in our thinking, we are diverse. One of the many ways that we are diverse is in thought. We have, as you may have heard in different venues, we have Sunnis, we have Shiites, we have Sufis and we have others. And even within those groups we have different schools of thought. And our population is very diverse. The largest population in the United States are African-American Muslims. The next largest are Indian and Pakistani in Muslims. And then we have Arab Muslims, Caucasian Muslims, southeast Asian Muslims, and so on. What's interesting, though, is that as a community internationally we're able to be bound together as sisters and brothers because we share a commonality in belief. And that commonality binds us. So much so that if-- and I've seen this before traveling around, if I'm in Cairo walking on the street and it happens to be time for prayer, and I start making prayer, somebody make up beside me and start making prayer with me. It may be a total stranger. But because we share those common values and beliefs, it's as if there's a relationship that exists without knowing one another personally.
• [00:04:19.41] This allows us to really work through issues of a diversity and differences by always coming back to that commonality. It's a good starting point. And it's even a revelation that god created us in many tribes so that we may know one another. As a community, we promote mulit-cultural sensitivities and outreach in many different ways. And I wanted to share with you some of those techniques that we use-- that have been used.
• [00:04:51.78] First, I would like to explain what a mosque is in Islam. A mosque is where we go to attend Friday prayer. And a mosque is meant for worship and reflection. There are some in southeastern Michigan that welcome people from all backgrounds, and there are others that are more aligned toward ethnic cultural background. However, it's interesting, a friend of mine, who also hopes to Islamic scholar and a professor in Cambridge, England recently spoke in Toronto and mentioned that his mosque in Cambridge is one where people, even non-Muslims come to reflect. Because they have taken great lengths to make the mosque one without signifiers that would unwelcome others. And in doing so, they have created this very spiritual environment where people who are not Muslim come there as well. It has expanded so much so that they are now in the process of building a new mosque. Sp one of the ways in which they try to-- this is one example of trying to bring everyone together by avoiding having those signifiers in their mosque that would make others feel like-- oh and I don't really believe quite like that, so I don't want to come here.
• [00:06:13.31] Then another technique that the prophet Mohammed himself, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] taught us was called brothering. And this concept he paired people to become brothers of different tribes. SP much so that they needed to know what the other person needed before they ask for it. By the time this has sort of saturated the community there were people upon their brother's death who were talking about inheritance rights. So they really, truly became brothers and sisters, and knew one another and accepted each other's differences and became one community. Others have encouraged intercultural marriages, of which there are now many. There are also many interracial and intercultural relationships in the American Muslim landscape. And unlike in the broader community, they seem to be a lot more accepted.
• [00:07:17.57] And a more specific incidents, like the recent incident we had here in Ann Arbor with the young lady who's hijab was removed on the bus, we attempted to build bridges through many different methods. First, there were emails flying around trying to figure out, as a community, how could we address this issue. There were some people who went directly to speak to members of the Ann Arbor school. Others of us got together with some of our younger members of the community, for example the Muslim Student Association of Ann Arbor at U of M. We thought that they would be good mentors for the young high school people, and this would be a good way to develop relationships. Because what we found was, when we look deeper into the situation in Ann Arbor, this was a long standing issue. It wasn't just an issue between those two individuals. There had been a long standing issue between African-American children and Arab children in the Ann Arbor public schools. And it didn't seem to matter whether you went to Huron or Pioneer, it was indiscriminate. So a bunch of us got together after at a cafe, representatives of different various student organizations on campus. The MSA, the black student union, many different groups, and we had at that time a guest speaker from Chicago who came in from the IMAN, the Intercity Muslim Action Network. They've had a lot of experience working in this vein. And we got lots of advice. And what we found was, instead of going on with the mentoring, we needed to take a step back. Because what the students were very honest to say to us was that some of them had not had the interactions growing up with other cultures, to feel comfortable to do that. So I remember one young lady, for example, intimated to tell us that her parents had always taken her down to Detroit to do the soup kitchens, but that had left her with the impression that blacks were all poor. So what that did then is-- we went back and we started learning these lessons and we took baby steps to address it. By having more interaction first between the Muslim Student Association and the Black Student Union, and now they're reaching out and doing all kinds of things on campus together. As well as reaching out to other offices on campus that give them the tools they need to further this along. So it was a really good learning process. But what was nice about it is because we have this value-- a commonality we were able to discuss these things.
• [00:10:01.37] Another issue that came up recently was a film. Where we had almost organization in California that wanted to give an award to a film from Bollywood. It was, from maybe an Indian perspective, a nice reflection of the things that people had gone through in India. But there were some scenes in it that depicted from an African-American American perspective antebellum racism. And so we had within the Muslim community, black leadership writing letters about these scenes in the movie. And then immigrant population writing letters back about their perspective. And I was actually consulted about this from both sides, and because I'm a part of neither one of those groups, and I could see they both had real important points. Something I didn't know but I learned, was that for some people that were from India-- there was in this movie there's a marriage between a Hindu woman in a Muslim man. Normally in Islam this is not permissible, although it has been allowable by some scholars. I think mainly for the purpose that it has created some unifying things in the community. But what had transpired in India was that many people during the riots were killed, their families were killed. So this film is very meaningful to people who had that experience and their families. But for African-Americans, and being a part of the American landscape, to see scenes that depict what we have been trying to get rid of in the united states for so long, it was just-- it was like too much. Because even black actors now-- I just watched a documentary recently on black actors who are trying to rid the acting community of blacksploitation films. They said the time for that has come and gone. There's so many other characters one can play, that there's no need for that anymore. So, they're now working to find a solution to this together.
• [00:12:22.17] Some of the greatest tension that we experience comes from a lack of knowing one another. So hopefully through some examples that I've given, we're trying to make those bridges happen, and get to know each other better. But when people don't know one another then they are often operating on limited information. And we see this also problematic in the broader community outside the Muslim community. Because we've seen the Muslim community demonized through the media, and marginalized by the government. And that has created tension between the Muslim community and others. Part of that has made people feel very cut off. But there are others who have purchased in interfaith activities, as well as opportunities like this. I think that one great thing that we can do as a large community, Muslim and non-Muslim, is to offer safe spaces like this for us to come together and share our stories and concerns about one another. So that we can find their own common ground as a broader community. And hopefully tonight, in some of the stories you will maybe hear something new or learn something that you will find commonality in yourselves. We have four phenomenal women here who are going to speak on their experiences as Muslims, as well as some of the work they've done around multicultural cultural issues.
• [00:13:56.43] SPEAKER 1: OK. I'd first like to introduce to you, sister Bayyinah K. Muhammed.f She has spent most of her life teaching him both public and private Islamic schools, or as a private tutor. Ms. Muhammad holds a masters in teaching and learning technologies, which guides her work in the center for adaptive technology, a computer lab supporting the needs of EMU's disabled students. Bayyinah recently completed a master's of fine arts in theater, during which she wrote and directed the performance Unveiled, stories from the lives of Muslim women. She is also the author of a children's book, If Everyone Were Just Like Me, which by the way we have copies of here if anyone is interested in afterwards. Ms. Mohammed is hoping that her six children and five grandchildren can survive without her as she embarks on a two year adventure teaching third grade in Abu Dhabi beginning this August. please welcome sister Bayyinah
• [00:14:56.15] BAYYINAH MOHAMMED: Peace and blessings to you all this evening. I thank sister Heather for inviting me to be part of this conversation, and I commend the Islamic interfaith council and the library for continued efforts to match the different colored threads that form the beautiful tapestry of our Ann Arbor community.
• [00:15:15.56] Race was a constant focus of attention when I was growing up in the '50s, even in new York City. In 1955, Rosa Parks was marched off to jail for keeping her seat on a Montgomery bus, an act which officially began the civil rights movement. It's significant, in that I feel my youth was a continuous search for validation and admittance. My conversion to Islam was as much an attempt at finding a community of people to which I could belong, as it was an attempt to find spiritual fulfillment. I grew up in a lower-middle class household in a newly built high rise in Harlem with two professional parents, a housekeeper, an upright Wurlitzer piano, and Saturday dance lessons. When I attended the local public school also attended by children who live down the street in tenements, and homes headed by welfare moms, I was a pariah. I remember being beaten up, shunned by peers of my own race because I was thought to be a stuck up rich kid. So where did I belong? By eighth grade, I was in the Dalton school, frequently mentioned on the TV show Gossip Girl, as an elite private school on Manhattan's upper each side, where my family's Ford station wagon was upstaged by the chauffeured limos that brought my classmates to school. My Wurlitzer was dwarfed by baby grands, housed in living rooms larger than my entire apartment. At Dalton I was no longer the stuck up rich kid, I became the token black scholarship kid. My parents were teachers, but my schoolmates' parents were doctors, lawyers, David Susskind the talk show host, Richard Avedon the world famous photographer, and Betty Friedan, nicknamed the mother the feminist movement. So where did I'd belong?
• [00:17:10.97] I like to look to god for acceptance early in life. We attended the small storefront Methodist church where my grandfather was the minister. But I was on a journey to locate a truth I felt was missing there. I began my sampling of other Christian denominations an alternate faiths as early as age ten. And it was in Islam that I found inspiration, and a truth that resonated in my heart and soul. It may have been even Malcolm X himself that I heard. Preaching the message of black unity and independence. "The black man should educate himself, and stop blaming the white man for his condition," is what I heard from the soap box orator as I walked home my piano lesson one afternoon. But when I got home and looked up Elijah Mohammed, the prophet of the nation of Islam I had just heard being preached about, all I could find was Mohammed from Mecca in the World Book Encyclopedia. And it was the story of his prophethood, and the spread of Islam around the globe that enveloped my heart. I was confused about the two men called Mohammed, but joined the nation of Islam at age 17, since that was the only Islamic community I was aware of. Besides, the men and the women in the nation were quite visible in the community's sweeping ghetto streets, giving out food to the poor, selling newspapers, fish, bean pies, door to door, and preaching a consistent message of hope for black people. Quite naturally, tens of thousands of people became followers. And the story of that movement and its impact on Islam is a story that will be told probably in another time.
• [00:18:45.77] In the 1980s, though, I was recruited as a teacher for the madrasa in the tiny town where Georgia O'Keffe painted, Albuque, New Mexico. There I met my first white American and European converts. I experienced the total opposite end of the spectrum from the black national in this community I moved from. In New Mexico I saw the university of Islam, may be just as Malcolm had seen it when he visited the holy city of Mecca and was joined by millions of Muslims from every continent in the world making Hodge. The Albuque Muslims were mostly Sufis, who played flutes, ouds, chanted enthusiastically the names of Allah, wore Birkenstocks or wooden Dutch shoes, and taught me to drink Earl Grey with cardamom, and I was from a strictly a Celestial Seasonings gal before that. When I arrived in Albuque with my husband and four children, the entire community, all about a dozen families, had turned out to greet the new teacher. An adorable little red haired and abundantly freckled spokesperson greeted me shyly with, assalamu alaikum, Aunti Bayylinah. We were served succulent baked rabbit, freshly killed that day but the hostess, with the greens from her garden, saffron rice, and her extraordinary peach cobbler. This was a place I could belong. Here in heaven among the Sufis. I felt at peace, lulled by the flow of the Chama river, surround by the Mecca-like desert environment. Happy, with the easy pace of spiritual life in the land of enchantment. Thirteen years and two children later, after the madrasa closed for lack of continued support from a Saudi princess, I relocated to Michigan. The Sufi group I had come to love has a retreat in Fenton, Michigan. So, U-Haul packed, kids in tow, we made the trek to Canton, Michigan in 1995 where I joined the staff Crescent Academy International.
• [00:20:39.44] In Michigan I met an even more diverse representation of Muslims, middle easterners from various countries, west African Somalians, southeast Asians. And it is here in Michigan that I truly find myself. Here I synthesize my love for education, my passion for the arts, and social activism. My previous experiences in the communities where I belonged were found on separatism. A black nation of Muslim separate from mainstream America, practicing their own flavor of Islam. Next, a Sufi group nestled on top of a scenic mesa, but away, separate. Within the religion of Islam I had found a place at last where I belonged, but my personal evolution I felt wasn't complete. So this portion of my life is designed to intersect with the larger American community. As the fifth grade teacher at the Muslim school in Canton we invited a fifth grade class from a neighborhood in public school just after the New York bombing. We played some drama games, shared lunch, and paired off students. And partners created a quilt shared of their common vision for a future world. A simple statement of peace and understanding. Later the finished quilt was displayed for several weeks in each of the schools.
• [00:21:47.82] In 2002 I stopped teaching, feeling strongly that I needed to get involved with teaching the Western world about Islam. I was constantly annoyed by the media stereotypes of Muslim women, portrayed as vamps or victims, terrorists or turn-coats. I set out to write a play that would truly represent us, but I had no idea how to write a play, and the result was awful. So I enrolled in a master's program in theater to learn my craft, and on September 11, 2006, one of my theater projects, my piece, Unveiled, stories from the Lives of Muslim Women, debuted at Eastern Michigan University. A combined audience of nearly 400 people, including EMU faculty, students, and Muslims from metro area communities gave the performance a standing ovation. And one of the deans insisted we repeat that performance during women's history month, saying that the entire university needed exposure to Islam at this level. The show will be produced again in June. If any of you would like us to come to your venue to perform, speak to me after.
• [00:22:55.80] I also wrote children's book, If Everyone Were Just Like Me, to show readers that all children are basically the same. They have disagreements with older siblings, want to be able to go out and ride their brand new bikes, need love, and pout when they're not the best at everything. I wanted to illustrate too, that Arabs aren't the only Muslims, by featuring four children from different parts of the Islamic world om my story. As an adult Muslim, I found that the racial prejudice exists within the Muslim community. Even though our religion binds us, as a sister Heather says, socioeconomics and certain cultural traditions prevent some ethnicities from within our community from creating alliances. Which is said to me, because the African American Muslims have developed strategies from decades of racial profiling in America that could serve as guides in overcoming the same type of profiling and outright hatred being displayed today among the general Muslim population. So, it's also my hope that the Muslim readers of my book will come away with a greater acceptance of Muslims from all cultural backgrounds. The obvious benefit of the book is that the Muslim children will see positive images of themselves. Which I attempted to do in the book, and with the performance piece Unveiled. One Syrian lady, after seeing the play, cried to me saying, you never see anything good about us. Never [UNINTELLIGIBLE], Sister Bayyinah. This is beautiful. Some of you may know who that was.
• [00:24:24.55] Judging from the response I got from Unveiled performances and from numerous events like this one, there is a sincere effort towards interfaith understanding and inclusion of Muslims in conversation about Islam. Interaction is necessary, I believe, to patch the growing rift between cultures based on media misinformation, and in my opinion feel by world leaders to whom war is advantageous. The interactions that we have need to be as strategically planned and implemented as the negative seeds have been. My campaign will be waged through the arts. I envision an Islamic cultural renaissance sweeping through North America led by American Muslims who are in the unique position to bridge both worlds. It is through portray, song, and shared stories, that idea and information permeate the masses. It is through the arts, that hearts in a society are reached. Muslims need to become a more visible part of the American landscape and be active, contributing members in a country that is our home. This is where I belong. Thank you.
• [00:25:33.51] [APPLAUSE]
• [00:25:42.01] SPEAKER 1: Thank you, Bayyinah. Our next speaker is sister Sommieh Flower. She has been the elementary school principal of Crescent Academy International for the past ten years. She has 25 years of experience in the field of Islamic education, both as a teacher and an administrator. She was educated at New York University and at Jersey City State University. She has a master's degree in school administration, and curriculum. And a bachelor's degree in elementary education. Sister Sommieh currently serves on the board of the Islamic Schools League of America. She is the founding member of the Islamic Education Foundation of New Jersey, and Razi School in Queens, New York. [UNINTELLIGIBLE] All of her four children have attended and graduated from Islamic schools. Please welcome sister Sommieh.
• [00:26:34.81] SOMMIEH FLOWER: [UNINTELLIGIBLE], good afternoon. I'm usually tempted to take it out of here but people get annoyed, especially the sound people if you do that. OK, this is my path to Islam in ten minutes or less. So it won't be my complete life story. It'll be more of the beginnings of the things. My parents and most of my family members are Jewish. And they view themselves as secular Jews, meaning being Jewish is their ethnic and cultural identity more than a religious identity to them. but. The only person in my family who is really sure she believed in god was my grandmother. I also had a neighbor, who is a best friend, who is a Baptist who wanted to save my soul from hell fire. When we were about 12 years old she made a very serious effort to do that. When we were both about 25, I thanked her for loving me enough to think that that was important. I went to Hebrew school and Sunday school, because I wanted a Bas Mitzvah, a big party that you have when you turn 13, coming of age. In the reform temple that my parents went to it was becoming popular for girls to have a Bas Mitzvah, although it was still not as big a deal as it was for the boys.
• [00:28:13.72] I grew up on Long Island in the 1970s, and if you remember the liberal '70s, it was all about breaking the rules-- if there were any. And my parents never explicitly set any, thinking my brother and I somehow had enough common sense to know the limits. Maybe he did, but I didn't. From the time I was 11 or 12, I was really searching for some meaning in life. I kept asking the question, is this all there is. Getting good grades, trying to be like the popular kids, dressing well, striving for a Barbie doll figure. Is this all there is to life? I once asked my mother this question, and I added, the because if this is it, I don't think I want to live. She asked me if I was serious or just trying to get a reaction. I told her I was kidding, but that was a lie.
• [00:29:33.43] After high school I went to Israel for nine months. And when I came back I tried to rediscover my roots. If I start the story of Israel, that will take at least another hour in itself so that's for another time and place. But when I came back I did have the sense that I should really try to figure out who I am as a Jew. I was living in New York City at the time, and I decided to look into Conservative Judaism instead of the reform temple that I've grown up in. And what I found was, Judaism seemed to me, to be more about the history of the Jewish people than about god. That's how it was portrayed to me most in my life and what I wanted to know was who is god? Does he exist? And do I have a relationship with him? I tried transcendental meditation, much to my parents' dismay, and found peace in that for moments at a time. But not enough to sustain a meaningful and happy life.
• [00:30:53.91] I attended New York University and I hung out in Washington Square Park. One day, while listening to an impromptu concert there, an African American man handed me a joint and asked, do you believe in god? I looked and his deep brown eyes, and answered truthfully, I don't know. Nobody has asked me that question for a long time. I'll have to think about it. The question planted a seed, and I did think. The man's name was Abdullah, and he hung out in that park all the time, so I started going there in between classes and asking him questions. Like how do you know there is a god? He had good answers. And when he ran out of those, he told me to go to the [? Muschat ?] and get a Koran. Which I did.
• [00:32:01.95] And one day I asked god to prove his existence to me. And he started to do just that. The universe became an open book of his science, the perfect petals of a flower, and the newly photographed rings around Saturn, became proof of a designers existence. Allah tells us in the Koran, that he will show us the signs in the universe and within ourselves until we believe. So I had started to believe, but I needed more. So I asked of the Abdullah about loneliness and being alone. Because there's a lot of that in New York City apartments and even in life even if you do have a roommate or a family. There's a certain void in the heart that only god can fill. Abdullah was a very smart man and he really knew how to talk to me. He told me that there was a hotline number, 33, 33, 34. And that you could call on that number whenever you wanted. So he told me this formula, OK. We have something called tasbih or [? Vicar ?], a remembrance of a law. And it's customary to say 33 "glory to god," 33 times, "all praises to god," and 34 times, "god is great." It's [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] So I started calling that number, that hotline number, 33-33-34 several times a day. And I realized that god was actually with me. So that void was starting to get filled.
• [00:34:17.33] Of course there are many teachers on one's spiritual path. And my next mentors were Muslim students at New York University. It was 1979, some people remember that year. The Americans had been taken hostage by Iranian students at the American embassy in Tehran. Remember how you felt about that? I, like most Americans, were flabbergasted and outraged that such a thing could have happened. Who were these people? Who who did think they were? So when I walked by the Muslim Students Association table during those student activity days at the beginning of the school year, I stopped by the MSA table, and I said to the Iranian students that were standing there, how dare you take our people hostage? Who do you think you are? Your politics stink. But tell me about your religion. The guy the table smiled graciously and said, what would you like to know. I had many questions and over the next few weeks my friends did their best to answer them. They impressed me in many ways. One of the most significant was the way they treated me, an attractive, stylish, single American college girl. Then didn't flirt. They didn't come on to me in any way. They were respectful in a way that American men just were not. I found this strange, but refreshing and nonthreatening. They introduced me to some female Muslim students and I began to learn about hijab, and Haya, covering and modesty. And I realized that the respectful behavior had to do the standard of modesty required of men and women in Islam. Most of you might look at hijab is a sign of oppression, but in reality it is a sign of liberation or freedom. It frees you from being a praise for the shape of your body and the color and style of your hair. Hijab demands that somebody look at your face, and listen to your words instead of running their eyes up and down your body as you speak. Hijab protects women in society from the exploitation of physical beauty. And when I walked down the street in Manhattan in my short business suit, I got cat calls. When my body was mostly covered modestly, I didn't. And I like that. It's very simple.
• [00:36:53.48] So I began to consider committing myself to god as a Muslim. The word Muslim means, one who submits to god's will about his or her own. And I started to pray. I put on hijab, I took my Shahadah, and began my journey toward [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. That's a lifelong journey. As Allah tells us in the Koran, chapter 81, verse 19, you will journey on from stage to stage. And in another chapter, regarding the soul's journey, he tells us that the person is successful who purifies their soul. And the person who is unsuccessful is the one who lets it stagnate, no growth. So the goal is always to learn, to grow, and to change. Thank you for listening.
• [00:37:46.79] [APPLAUSE]
• [00:37:50.21] TAMAR WEAVER: Thank you, sister Sommieh our next guest speaker, sister Shirin Khan, is both a lawyer and entrepreneur. She practices law and estate planning and contracts. She also runs the operations of I Learned Online, LLC., an online tutoring company for grades K through 12. Shirin is a happily married woman with three daughters, she is also an alumni of U of M. Please welcome sister Shirin.
• [00:38:21.62] SHIRIN KHAN: Good evening, everyone. Growing up Muslim in Michigan, I felt very lucky. On the weekends my family would take me to our mosque and community center where we would go for social events. There would always be activities going on for families and kids. It was a great place to go to just be with people of our faith and be in a safe environment with them. So on the weekends, we had our Muslim community, and in the weekdays, of course we attended public school. And I had my friends that were not of the Muslim faith, and in order to spend time with them-- I wanted a sense of belonging with them as well, and so I joined Girl Scouts. I'm sure all of you know about Girl Scouts. It was great because we did activities, we earned badges, we went camping, sang songs, and I ate s'mores without the marshmallows, because we don't eat gelatin. But it was nice have this interaction with my friends outside of my Muslim community. And I remember once when we were at a camping event, my friend and I, we had to make one of our five daily prayers. And so in the evening, in our cabin, we started to make our prayer. And we didn't notice but our whole troop had come and formed a circle around us. And when we finished they all clapped for us, and we were surprised. We didn't know what was going on, and they were just impressed by what we were doing that we followed our faith so religiously. And it made us feel proud that we had something that we could share with them, that was unique and different. And something that they wanted to learn about.
• [00:40:02.11] So growing up in middle school and high school I didn't do Girl Scouts, but I participated in cross-country and track. But I always had my Muslim community on the weekends and then I would have my clubs and other activities that I would do at school. So our Muslim community was always a base for us, but we participated in society as well. And so after going to college I met my husband here at the University of Michigan. We have three daughters and two of them attend Crescent Academy, where sister Sommieh is the principal. And since I have three girls, I thought that I should get started with Girl Scouts with them. So the last year we started a Girl Scouts troop, and some of you may know the Girl Scout's law-- on my honor, I will try to serve god and my country. To help others at all times, and to live by the Girl Scout law. This is something that's so American, and so Muslim at the same time. So this is what we teach our girls in Girl Scouts. That you can be a good American citizen, and a good Muslim at the same time. And there's no difference between the two.
• [00:41:12.28] So as part of Girl Scouts, some of the badges that we covered were being honest and fair. We depicted this badge last year by putting the girls into groups and doing skits on different scenarios. Someone's cheating in school, and asking you for answers on a test what would you do. If you take something from a store, and you know you didn't realize, what would you do. Would you take it back to the store and pay for it. And we talked about being fair and playing sports, not cheating when you're playing pin the tail on the donkey. Things like that. Things that are just values that are so important as Muslims and Americans. Other badges we worked on are making the world a better place. So we took garbage bags and went around the school and collected-- cleaned up the area. And we emphasize the importance of being nice and clean. And keeping your neighborhood nice and clean. And this is good for us as Americans and us as Muslims. Then also just being considerate and caring. We collected money for local families in Canton, Michigan that didn't have enough money winter clothing. So these are just all values that are important as Muslims and Americans as well. This is what we emphasize to the girls.
• [00:42:31.12] So you would think that having a group of Muslims at the Crescent Academy in Canton, Michigan, you think that we would all be a homogeneous group. But in actuality, we're very diverse. We have blacks, whites, Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Arabs, Malaysians, so we cover a huge spectrum. Not only in our socioeconomic background, but then also in our thought within Islam. Some people are more on the strict side, and some people are more on the liberal side. This kind of came out when once we had an activity we wanted to do on fitness. In showing the girls that it was important to be healthy and stay fit. And we wanted to, as the organizers, do a little event. And We wanted to do Bolly-Fit. Which a new trend which is incorporating Bollywood dancing with fitness aspects. And so we really think anything of it when we were just suggesting the activity, but several parents came back to us and said, do you really think this is a good idea. I don't think we should be dancing or teaching the girls this because this isn't allowed in Islam. And then at the other end of the spectrum we had people that said, no it's a good activity. We need to encourage fitness, and fitness through dance is a great way to exposed the girls to this. And within certain parameters, this is allowed in Islam.
• [00:43:58.93] So this kind of started a dialogue within our email group about what's allowed and what's not allowed in Islam. Just basically it came about that-- some critical thinking skills when it comes to Islam and what you can do what you can't do. That although there are differences in of opinion, we respected everyone's opinion within this group. We decided to come to a compromise where we did an American line dance, so we incorporated a little bit of fitness. And we did it to Jai Ho, which is the theme song for Slumdog Millionaire. The girls had a great time. And there was one family that decided to keep their kids home that day, which we said was fine, and we had given them an alternate activity to do. Heather's actually a co-leader with me at the Girls Scouts troops. So in the end, we all came together and although we had differences of opinion, we were all able to express our views and go on with the activity it in a way that was agreeable to everyone.
• [00:45:00.11] So as you can see, Girl Scouts is kind of a microcosm of the intersection of Islam in America. And although we come from different backgrounds and cultures, we share a faith that we have integrated with life in America.
• [00:45:17.10] [APPLAUSE]
• [00:45:24.78] HEATHER LAIRD: If I could just add, sister Shirin is a very brave Girl Scout leader because we have 40 girls in our one true. This was a long process, actually, to start the Girl Scouts because there was some distrust of, what his Girl Scouts at first. And now, as you can see, we have so much interest we need more leaders. I just take the opportunity right now to just let you know if you don't already, there should be cards on everyone's chairs. And these are to write questions if you have questions. We will have a question and answer period after our next speaker. So if you have any questions you might want to start thinking about than. I just wanted to let you know that they are there. Grace will collect them later. OK, so our next speaker, sister Mona, is currently an attorney in private practice, but has spent time in the public sector working for the Wayne County prosecutor's office. and the Michigan Attorney General's Office. Her focus in both offices was on family issues, mainly abuse and neglect of children. She has three children, and she's a graduate of the University of Michigan here in Ann Arbor. Please welcome sister Mona.
• [00:46:33.63] [APPLAUSE}
• [00:46:38.05] MONA YOUSEFF: Thank you and good evening. My name is Mona Youseff. By way of background, unlike the first three speakers, I was born and raised Muslim my whole life. I was born to both parents from Egypt. They immigrated here back in the '70s. And I was born in '79. So you can figure out how old I am. So my whole life I grew up in a home where I saw my parents praying. We ate food that was halal, kosher for Muslims like us. But I lived in a community where they were not very many Muslims close by. I went public school, I played sports at school and outside of school. And it wasn't until the early '90s when we moved from New Jersey to Michigan-- to Canton, Michigan, where I had a large Muslim community around me. I went to high school at Plymouth Salem. And at that time-- although right now there's a huge Muslim population there and there's a Muslim Student Association, that school there was a handful of Muslims. And we did pray Jumah Friday together at school. And that was about it at school.
• [00:48:05.98] I was married young, by choice. I met my husband at the local mosque. We didn't have a relationship going on for too long, but my husband proposed the summer after my senior year of high school. I thought about it, I knew him because I saw him at the mosque all the time and we planned activities together for our local youth group. I prayed to god to guide me in making the right decision, and I felt very, very comfortable getting married to him. We both had older siblings that were not yet married. But we went ahead and got married at the ages of 19 and 20. And we were engaged for a year before that. My husband was not of Arab background, he was of Indian background. So there were some differences. There was different clothing, and different expectations, a lot of cultural things around the actual marriage ceremony. There were some issues but we worked our way through them. And both of our families get along very well, this is really good for us. I love wearing Indian clothes, and when my husband wants Indian food, we go over to his mother. I think it's the hardest kind of cooking that there is.
• [00:49:42.10] I did go to U of M for undergrad and for law school. And throughout my life there's been a theme that my parents have instilled in us of generosity, and public service. And I went into law not with the expectation of having a great practice that brings in a lot of money, but I had an expectation and a goal of serving my greater community. There were not very many lawyers-- Muslim lawyers-- that I knew when I started law school. And not very many that I know of when I graduated. I decided that I was going to go into government work. I feel strongly that any government, whether it be local, or state, or federal, no matter what sector of government it is should be representative of the population that it serves. So with that in mind I had worked in the federal courts for some time as an intern. I interned at the Wayne county prosecutor's office, and I went on to become an assistant attorney general. I worked in the child abuse and neglect unit down in Wayne county. And for those of you are familiar with that unit, or with child abuse and neglect cases that go on in Wayne county, it's quite unbelievable. What you see on TV as far as child abuse and neglect goes-- it doesn't compare to what really goes on. And the types of abuse cases that I've dealt with are still on my mind.
• [00:51:38.82] I represented the state in these proceedings. So I represented CPS, child protective services, and foster care workers and department of human services. As an individual who appeared in those cases. And although we represented that entity, what we were striving for in the end was whatever was in the best interest of the child. And I didn't have any conflict with my religious beliefs and the law. I didn't have any-- they actually went so well together, so I never felt conflicted. I'm a strong believer in the American justice system, I think it's probably the best in the world. And I, as a Muslim lawyer, I never feel conflicted about promoting the law, or abiding by the law, and my religious beliefs at the same time. When I saw the topic for this presentation, the thought that kept coming to my mind about what is it like for me being Muslim in America, I kept thinking, well, I feel like I'm such an ordinary person. The issues I face are probably the same issues that my neighbor faces. Work, life balance. Worrying about my kids, and who they're playing with. How they're going to grow up to be. Time management, that's always an issue for me. Getting my kids to school on time, and their principal is just sitting two seats down. It's a huge challenge for me every morning. Both my husband and I work. We actually work together now in private practice. And keeping our lawn up to par with the neighbors, that's a big issue, Dealing with my children's sibling rivalry, I've got three children now. In many ways I can relate to Everyone Loves Raymond, because I feel like-- my parents live down the street and my husband's parents live about ten minutes away. And they're always coming over, and we love them. I feel so American and I feel so ordinary. So that was something that I really wanted to emphasize today.
• [00:54:21.27] I am Muslim, and in some ways being Muslim shapes every hour of my day. But it really doesn't make me that much different from my neighbor. Thank you.
• [00:54:39.41] [APPLAUSE]
• [00:54:45.22] HEATHER LAIRD: So once again, if we can thank these four phenomenal women for speaking today it was really nice hearing what they had to share. And as you noticed from four different perspectives as well. I don't know if you caught this, but Sister Bayyinah, Sister Sommieh and I are all three converts. And sister Shirin and sister Mona grew up Muslim in America. So hopefully that gave you a nice sense of the diversity that we have in our community.
• [00:55:17.75] Do we have any questions? OK, here's a general question for anyone who wants to answer, of if you all want to answer it. Can you please address wearing a hijab on a job interview? How about wearing hijab in public? I guess it would be right more like how to wear it is that the question?
• [00:56:12.29] MONA YOUSEFF: I will take it. I think sometimes they do. And I think it depends on-- it depends on where you're interviewing, and perhaps the type of job that you're interviewing for. I had never felt discriminated against, ever, until I was applying for jobs as a lawyer. And I think that, although I was public service oriented and I really wanted to do government, I also applied for some positions in private law firms. And I felt that especially at those law firms, the bigger ones are usually run by Caucasian males, at least traditionally they have been. And and I did feel discriminated against. But you deal with it. I mean what are you going to do? I think ten years from now when hijab-- people are more used to it, I think that's not to be so much an issue. In our private practice right now we have clients ranging from corporations that are run by an older white male who-- they use our firm because we're good. And we have clients that are Muslim who want something done in this Muslim-- specifically, usually estate planning they want done in an Islamically compliant way.
• [00:57:44.91] But I think-- yes, sometimes we face discrimination. And you can either cry about it or you can just sort of move on. There's some times it's actionable, but usually it's not. How do you know you've been discriminated against against. Very rarely are there clear signs of it. If there were clear signs, I would have done something about it. But it was just a feeling.
• [00:58:11.94] HEATHER LAIRD: That was actually another question that was in here. Have any of us felt discriminated against? Actually, to be honest with you-- after becoming a Muslim I-- because I grew up in an American society where we still have white privilege, after becoming a Muslim and wearing hijab. I didn't know what that was growing up, I really didn't know what that was. I mean I heard people talk about it but I didn't know what it was. After I started wearing the veil, I started to see what that was. Because it was something I'd taken for granted, and I didn't really realize what that difference was. After wearing the veil, and being called a few thousand names, I certainly understand a similitude of what minorities experience in America. And I did feel discrimination in a number of arenas, but it was a blessing at the same time, because it made me able to relate to people a lot easier.
• [00:59:33.58] SHIRIN KHAN: Several times I feel like people automatically assume that you don't speak English. Sometimes when I'm buying things from the store-- one time actually, someone accused me of trying to steal something. So I think people have this image, you're foreign, you don't know what's going on. So that does happen. Now and then, but overall living here in Michigan I feel like there's so many Muslims that I don't really think twice about wearing hijab. Or I don't really feel that people are looking at me or anything.
• [01:00:10.32] MONA YOUSEFF: I just wanted to add that, I think one thing that at least fear of discrimination has instilled in me, is a feeling that I need to be better. I've got to be better than my peers. At least academically, I had to get A's. In my work, I've got to do everything excellently, no mistakes. I've got to be the best. I mean that's something that my parents instilled in me as a child, too, always be the best. But I think wearing hijab if I were to make a mistake it's going to be blown up much more than if it was made by somebody who didn't wear hijab. So it pushes me to be better, and I guess that's OK.
• [01:01:02.56] SPEAKER 2: What about after 9/11? Did that have any effect on people? Did they start thinking of Arabs or Muslims being terrorists or whatever? I'm just wondering.
• [01:01:22.51] SOMMIEH FLOWER: I think people were more fearful after 9/11. There were more maybe suspicious looks. But just like when I was saying it makes you want to be better, do the best. It made me want to be nicer and friendlier to people. Bigger smile, more polite, more caring about them. Do my best to dispel whatever fear they might have.
• [01:01:55.52] BAYYINAH MOHAMMED: In a way that was the best thing that kind of happened to our community, because it forces us as Muslims to be out and about. And not to just have our tea and eat our hummus, and be satisfied in our own little separate lives that we had for so long. And I think it's so necessary, the interaction that I talked about when I was speaking before. And 9/11 forced us to do that. And it forced me to play out there, so get out and talk, and to interact and it's good. But yes, there is a difference. And even now every time a news story comes up when some other Muslim, somewhere is doing something, there is definitely-- I don't know if you all experience this, you see when you when you're driving, people are doing this. On the steering wheels, when they see a hijab. At least to me, I notice it all time. Loser! So it comes out really fast, not the finger but the loser thing. I've seen it like 25 times. With young guys with caps on usually, with trucks, that must be a college kind of thing. But anyway so there is hostility. But, there are also events like this. Many, many events where people want to come and want to interact. And so that's it. It's the good the bad. But yes, 9/11 did change things for me. But then again, I could hardly tell the difference because I didn't know if I was being discriminated against black American, or is it the scarf?
• [01:03:34.49] MONA YOUSEFF: On a personal level, I actually felt more of an outpour of sincere love and kindness than I did of any discrimination. There might have been a couple instances, although I was oblivious to the L sign. I didn't know that meant loser, so maybe I missed a few of those. But I thought like, even in the grocery store, people were so nice to me. And neighbor's were so nice. They would come and ask to see if there was anything that they could do for us, or to watch out for us. So I actually felt like an outpouring of this kindness from my community.
• [01:04:17.14] HEATHER LAIRD: I noticed an intensity change after 9/11, but actually-- when I became Muslim I was a teenager still and it was during the Gulf War. And I noticed even then this sort of feeling. I just noticed the intensity change after 9/11. It was kind of like building. Interestingly, I did a national survey on the hijab. And one of the questions I asked in there was about 9/11 And how did this affect your wearing hijab. And overwhelmingly the response from women was that it made women who-- because there was this idea in the media that women were just throwing off their veils because they didn't want to be identified as Muslim. But actually, overwhelmingly, women put their veils on that weren't wearing them. And it made them more-- have a stronger conviction about it. But there was also an interesting difference among the community itself in terms of ethnicity. So, for example, I got many responses from African American women saying that they didn't feel anything after 9/11 because in the African American community, Muslims have been a part of that community for so long that it was like-- these are our brothers and sisters. We see these people all the time it was like no different. They feel that sense of terrorism. But, more toward people who looked Arab or like Arab or were Arab. I thought that was interesting distinction in our broader community.
• [01:05:50.66] OK for Shirin and Mona, they want to know how did you deal with teenage issues growing up?
• [01:06:01.05] MONA YOUSEFF: I got married young.
• [01:06:02.14] [LAUGHTER]
• [01:06:05.06] SHIRIN KHAN: And that's how we deal with it. I think it was nice that, like I was saying how we had our community outside of school. And it was nice to have friends of the Muslim faith. We had the same values. And I felt like whenever there's something that I couldn't do over there, I had an alternate activity I could do it the mosque. So I didn't feel left out, or that I couldn't participate in things. I always had an alternate. I think my parents really thought about that. And they wanted us to be surrounded by good friends and have a support system.
• [01:06:46.47] MONA YOUSEFF: I think that my parents and I had a very strong sense of trust with each other. I mean my parents were OK with us going out late. As long as well I'm no longer going to be home, we didn't even have a curfew. But there was a sense of trust between us that they knew that I wouldn't do anything that was crazy. They didn't have that with all my siblings, but they had it with me.
• [01:07:21.02] SPEAKER 3: In going to public school did you struggle with your classmates? What they're doing? Senior parties, going out, even going to the mall? Certain things like track, did you need to wear separate outfits? Just an issue of everyday basics. Because in Ann Arbor Public Schools you don't have that good community support. I private schools like Crescent. So were they an issue for you? Or you choose when to engage completely? And went to the mosque as a community for your--
• [01:08:06.01] SHIRIN KHAN: Well, yeah, I felt that I was confident in my religion, and I told people what I could do. And so they knew my boundaries. And actually my track coach was the one who suggested certain clothing for me. He was like, oh I found this pant that you could wear that will make you-- won't be too heavy and it's a nice light cloth. And he would suggest to me what I could wear, I didn't feel that I was separated from them at all. Because I participated in these things but I just made my own accommodation.
• [01:08:41.38] BAYYINAH MOHAMMED: I can speak a little bit on that too. I had children in high school, Ypsilanti High School. And they want to play soccer, and swim, and be in theater, and they have to have the hijab et cetera. And just as you're saying, we found the teachers very, very accommodating. Like they would wear the black leggings that people wear under the soccer uniform. And the hijab, as long as it matched the school colors, that's what they had to wear. And the theater teacher really, really went over and beyond the call of duty to me, because she picked this play, and when my daughter got the lead she built the way she costumed it so that everybody had to wear a scarf. She picked an era where all of them had little kerchiefs. I was just astounded that the respect and the love that was given to my children in high school. But of course that they were outgoing. See there were problems with other kids who did not interact. So I think the key is knowing people, and being part of the school, being part of society. And that made all the difference. And for prom their brother, my son, took his sisters to prom. They had a limo. And I sewed long-- they had a prom dresses, but they had the hijab over it with long sleeved jackets. See, we get around. We do it.
• [01:10:07.15] HEATHER LAIRD: Our next question is, today I watch Dr. Phil on NBC, I think that is, about racial issues, labeling Muslim kids terrorists. Do you have any idea how to educate the community?
• [01:10:32.73] SOMMIEH FLOWER: Well I think it goes back to what Bayyinah and Mona and Shirin were both really saying about getting involved and interacting. And not being isolated. Our neighbors are kind to us because they know us. They know we're not those people that they see on the news. A stranger is somebody you don't know. If you are involved, interacting, in the community, then people really won't accuse you. OK, children, yes, children are mean. They do tease each other. And educators in any school should treat that type of harassment as bullying. And it needs to be treated as bullying. Whether you're calling somebody a terrorist or whether you're calling them ugly and fat. Because when it comes from children like that, it's really more a case of bullying and harassment. Trying to get-- trying to upset another child. And that's how it should be treated by teachers.
• [01:11:41.36] BAYYINAH MOHAMMED: I think education of the community means that we need to have some kind of program set up that we go into schools for outreach. And I think that-- and I was thinking of even writing a manual for public school. For how to deal with things. Issues, dress, hijab, Ramadan, the fasting, not eating marshmallows at parties, et cetera. Some kind of guide that we have and then having people come in to those days that they have teacher in-service. So to teach the teachers, the principles, and then the teachers can teach the children.
• [01:12:24.04] SHIRIN KHAN: There is that Council on American Islamic Relations, there is a Michigan chapter and they do have-- if anyone's interested in getting a speaker to come to your organization, they do have people that do that.
• [01:12:38.48] HEATHER LAIRD: OK, how any of you studied or noticed any parallels between the Islamic American experience and that of other minority faith groups such as Catholics, including Irish, Italian and Latino communities, Jews, Mormons, et cetera.
• [01:12:58.94] SOMMIEH FLOWER: It's a really good question. I think there's a pattern. I know that when I was growing up my father used to talk about how each immigrant community was discriminated against, in its turn. When they came and for a certain amount of years after that. So I think there's a pattern to that whole thing. So some discrimination that people face is because they're the new guys on the block. And it's a question of them interacting in society and their neighbors getting to know them as individuals instead of those people over there. So in that sense, yeah, I think there's a general pattern with each immigrant group being viewed as outsiders. Being viewed with suspicion until people get to know them and they acclimate themselves to the society as well.
• [01:14:02.29] HEATHER LAIRD: You know there is one interesting difference though. I think in the American Muslim landscape, which is that we can trace Muslims back to-- there were Muslim slaves. There were even Muslims before that. So they weren't really-- like we're thinking of immigrant story, that's not really same story. There was a difference. The Irish Americans, when they came, there was a lot of poverty and so forth. The wave Muslim immigrants that we had come to this country, a lot of them came as professionals. It's a whole different experience. So there are some parallels but there are also some differences. I think that have made it in some ways a little more difficult. But in other ways easier. Certainly within the indigenous American community.
• [01:15:11.60] BAYYINAH MOHAMMED: Yet another challenge with us is that we're all different. We represent something like 83 different ethnicities in America that call themselves Muslims. So we don't agree all the time. So we're not a united force to stand against anything that comes either. Because we're splintered. That's a challenge for us as a community.
• [01:15:43.70] HEATHER LAIRD: Is there a verse in the Koran that instructs Muslim woman to cover their heads? If so, what is it and which surah? Actually in the Koran, and this is a common mistake made in the popular media that it is not prescribed for women to cover because it does actually say the word hijab. There are other words that are referenced in the Koran that in an Islamic understanding, we have, it's called [? fik ?]. We have what's called [? fik a lookah ?], which is the understanding of language. So in the time of the Prophet Mohammed [UNINTELLIGIBLE], the Arabs of that time knew a certain Arabic. Just like we have in our colloquial language of today, and the kids have their sayings like laugh out loud or whatever. The Arabs of that time, of the prophet's time, knew when the revelation came about the dressing modestly exactly what he meant. So he didn't have to say, it must be a veil, and you must wear it this way. Because the Arabs knew what that meant at that time. Over time though, just how our own language has changed over time in other words have taken on a new meanings, and so forth, this has also happened an Arabic. Which is why we have this canon of understanding, this cannon of [? fik ?] called [? fik a lookah ?] So those who actually studied this know that the people of that time knew what that meant. So there was no need to explicitly say that. Now that people have gotten further away from that study, and you have people coming into Islam who maybe don't even know Arabic, it's harder for them to understand that without knowing this is history. And one of the things that is really beautiful about Islam is that we do have this strong tradition of history and understanding and keeping track of that so that we can get to the real understanding of things.
• [01:18:00.62] So for those who have been running around saying that it's not required, I just assume that they just haven't gotten that far in their study yet, to really know that it is.
• [01:18:21.45] BAYYINAH MOHAMMED: Does anybody know the specific surah that says cover your--
• [01:18:26.73] SOMMIEH FLOWER: My son-in-law should know. Ahmed, what's the verse? Do you know?
• [01:18:35.11] SHIRIN KHAN: Also, I think too that the way they lived during the time of the Prophet [INAUDIBLE], That is called Sunnah, which is the way the life of the prophet, which is a supplement to how our understanding of the Koran is. An example of that is the way that we pray. You won't find in the Koran where it says exactly the five prayers and how they performed, but we know to do that based on the teachings of the prophet. So I'm in addition to the language being a barrier in the Koran for when it tells us how to dress, we have the supplementation of how the women, the believers, the Muslims at that time, how they dressed. And although it's changed over time, And you see women are covered fully and I wear pants. It's different, but we know that the veiling of the hair and of the bosom, in just the general rules of modesty also as a supplement from the Sunnah.
• [01:19:31.18] HEATHER LAIRD: Which was another question that we had actually. That we all wear hijab differently up here. So is that cultural or religious? And for many it's culturally determined.
• [01:19:41.83] SOMMIEH FLOWER: And what you are saying right now did recall to my mind that there are, of course, variable translations of Arabic. But one that I'm very familiar with, I cannot quote the exact chapter and verse, but it says and draw your head coverings over your bosoms. People did have something on their head. It was their chest that maybe was uncovered. OK, I mean there was already a veil. So didn't specifically need to say veil yourself, but take what you have as a cover and cover what needs to be covered. Another verse talks about women's adornments. And there have been various interpretations of [? fik ?] of what that means, what should be covered. Well everything that's attractive. And so many scientific studies have dealt with the attractiveness of the form of the woman. So then what should be covered? And, everything that's attractive. There will be different interpretations, but yes there are specific verses.
• [01:20:59.94] In fact I'm going to apologize that none of us know exactly the name and chapter of the verse because we should.
• [01:21:05.63] HEATHER LAIRD: The words in the Koran that refer to this are like jilbab and [? tomas ?]. Am I saying that right? Mona?
• [01:21:14.59] MONA YOUSEFF: I don't know.
• [01:21:17.28] SHIRIN KHAN: As far as the differences in our styles, it's just like anything else. According to fashion or whatever you can accommodate if you want to. One of my friends has a company, a blog she started, hijab trends, and she just finds different clothing that you can find anywhere in and shows you ways that you can accommodate for people who wear hijab. It's part of being American Muslim.
• [01:21:51.57] SOMMIEH FLOWER: Definitely part of being an American Muslim because we're not bound by any particular cultural tradition. So that's a nice freedom for us. We have only a few more minutes for questions, so if I don't get everybody's question, please forgive me. But you can approach us afterwards. To all the speakers, what do you think are the most important initiatives we should focus on to build bridges of understanding? What is most needed?
• [01:22:29.33] BAYYINAH MOHAMMED: Interaction, interaction, interaction. And in various ways. I mean even if it's in the grocery store, on the lines. Officially formally and informally, all the time. And thank you for coming.
• [01:22:46.23] SHIRIN KHAN: A lot of times people say, I'm sorry I don't mean to be rude, but I want to ask. But please ask, we're happy to answer questions. I think you shouldn't be shy to ask. Most people would love to explain or talk to you about it.
• [01:23:04.34] SOMMIEH FLOWER: I was just going to say that the only thing that can dispel stereotypes is getting to know people as individuals. So that's interaction and communication.
• [01:23:15.65] HEATHER LAIRD: Sister Mona, being married as a young and as a professional Muslim woman, could you talk about work life balance?
• [01:23:24.66] MONA YOUSEFF: I can talk about it but I haven't figured it out yet. It's tough. I had my first child at age 21. I had just finished undergrad four days before she was born. And it blew me away. Taking care of child is consuming. Time consuming, physically consuming, mentally consuming. I had ambitions and I really wanted to get my professional life on track too. I went to law school at U of M, I went full time. For me what worked was taking advantage of the extended family that was around me. And they helped me raise my children. Everyday it's a struggle. And I'm still working on it. It's one of those things where if you really feel horrible every day, and you feel like you're not-- and there were times in my career, there is a time when I was working in Lansing and I drove back and forth every day. Even though I liked what I was doing there and it was a fulfilling, I would get home at a time where I see my kids for like an hour and put them to sleep. And I was gone in the morning before they wake up. And that wasn't fulfilling for me. I switched, and right now I think I have an OK balance. I'm my own boss so that kind of helps. My work is more flexible. Sometimes I'm up late at night finishing things. But I get to see my kids in the morning and I try to not come home too late. But it's an ongoing struggle. I don't think I'll ever really get it 100%. It's something that I continue to strive towards.
• [01:25:19.82] HEATHER LAIRD: We actually had an audience member provide us with the answer to that question about where does it talk about hijab in the Koran. It's Surah An-Noor chapter 24, verse 31 is where it starts.
• [01:25:32.87] SPEAKER 4: Could you repeat that please?
• [01:25:33.33] Yes, the 24th chapter which is Surah An-Noor and verse 31.
• [01:25:38.41] BAYYINAH MOHAMMED: I think he looked it up on his iPhone.
• [01:25:40.67] [LAUGHTER]
• [01:25:44.76] SPEAKER 5: One quick question, what about interfaith marriages, or your children growing up not Muslim?
• [01:25:54.97] HEATHER LAIRD: We do have interfaith marriages. And Islam men are allowed to marry Christian women and Jewish women, people of the book.
• [01:26:04.18] SPEAKER 5: But what's the attitude towards that? Are they frowned upon?
• [01:26:10.72] HEATHER LAIRD: I don't think we can say that it is monolithic in terms of attitude, it varies. Depending on which family, what background.
• [01:26:22.19] MONA YOUSEFF: I do have a Christian sister-in-law. My brother is married to a Christian woman. And we love her and she's awesome. My parents love her, we love her family. It worked out well. I know it's not the case for everyone. And I would hope that my kids marry a Muslim. But there's hopes and there's reality.
• [01:26:50.28] HEATHER LAIRD: Does it bother you that women cannot imams or leaders of the mosque? Cannot be leaders of the mosque, imams, like a minister.
• [01:27:05.92] BAYYINAH MOHAMMED: There's always this thing in American society that women can't do what men do. But I never wanted to. I was really happy to be a mother. I felt that being a woman is the most blessed thing to be. I get to shape the future of society through motherhood, through teaching my children. And I never wanted to be-- go out, I mean that was all around me. Like I said, Betty Friedan, and the whole feminist movement was definitely out there when I was in school in new York. But I never felt that. I don't feel-- I don't think we as Muslims feel that we need to be equal to men. In a way, we all are equal to men. In the sight of god. It doesn't mean we have to do the same job. Not being able to do the same job doesn't make you equal. So, are two nurses equal? Even though they do the same nursing job? No. Just because you can't be an imam doesn't mean you aren't an imam. I know.
• [01:28:11.40] MONA YOUSEFF: But outside of the imams, I do feel that our communities, our mosques, do need more influence from women in their leadership. And in the way that they're run. And I think that's something that we're kind of working towards. But it's been a little too slow.
• [01:28:35.07] HEATHER LAIRD: Women do serve on various boards, I don't know if they serve on any of the mosque boards. In different community groups they serve on boards. And I do think there is some preference culturally. So for example the Muslims in China, some of the women have their own mosques. Where they go and pray together, just women. There are instances where you see-- but they're still not imams, but they have their own separate space.
• [01:29:12.93] SOMMIEH FLOWER: I just want to add to that real quick. I also think that it's not just-- the leadership is also not-- like what Mona was saying, it also has a lot to do with cultural barriers. I think one thing that people do need to understand is a lot of us are first generation. Whereas the American community has settled in for many, many, many years and many, many generations. We are just beginning. And we are finding our way. A lot of us are first generation. So just because women are not necessarily imams, it does not mean that we don't have a strong influence already. In the mosque, in our homes, in our families. Education is extremely, extremely stressed upon for women in Islam. And as a matter of fact the prophet's wives, and especially his youngest wife, his last wife, Aisha, she was the fountain of knowledge after his death. And knowledge is stressed upon very, very highly for women. So even though we may not be out in the forefront, it does not necessarily mean that we are not a strong influence. A lot of the barriers are cultural more than they are religious.
• [01:30:32.36] HEATHER LAIRD: OK, I think actually we have some very large questions up here, very interesting questions about human rights and about inferiority issues, conflicts between Sunnis and Shiites and questions about the Middle East and France. We ran out of time though. So maybe we can provide some answers to this, Grace, for the ICPJ website or something. But I would like to ask you at this time-- I'd like to thank everybody for coming out on a Thursday night. And would like to ask you to be sure to fill out the evaluations on your chairs. I think you have two of them-- one of them. And if anybody didn't go on my chance we have extras, just let us know if anyone needs one. Thank you for coming.
• [01:31:26.89] [APPLAUSE]