Ann Arbor's Greenbelt Program

Sat, 01/31/2009 - 11:09am

When: November 7, 2012 at the Downtown Library: Multi-Purpose Room

Join representatives from the City of Ann Arbor's Greenbelt program and landowners involved with the program for a dynamic discussion on land conservation, farming and why land conservation is important. During this event, a variety of landowners (both long-time and new farmers) will discuss their farms, farming rewards and challenges; why they chose to protect their land and how the Greenbelt Program has helped to keep farming viable in the Ann Arbor area. Representatives from the City of Ann Arbor's Greenbelt Program will also cover how the program is working with landowners in the Greenbelt District to protect the agriculture and natural resources in the area for future generations. As of February 2012, the Greenbelt has expended funds to protect 27 working farms through the purchase of development rights and 3 open space parks, in collaboration with Washtenaw Natural Area Preservation Program. Collectively, these properties comprise over 3,500 acres protected using Greenbelt funds.

Transcript

• [00:00:26.58] TIM GRIMES: All right, good evening everybody and welcome to the library. My name is Tim Grimes. I manage community relations and marketing here for the library. And thank you so much for coming out. I know it's a really cold evening. We appreciate that you've come here for tonight's event.
• [00:00:41.39] This is one of many events that we have here at the Ann Arbor District Library. If you want to find out more about our events, please go to our website at aadl.org. We have events almost every night.
• [00:00:52.96] Coming up we have two very special events in observance of Veterans Day. If you come back tomorrow night and join us we're going to be observing Veterans Day, but also the 50th anniversary of the Vietnam War. And we have a panel of local vets that are going to be talking about their experiences during the war.
• [00:01:12.66] And then, next Tuesday night, on the fourth floor, we have a very special film called Hell and Back. It's an Oscar-nominated documentary. It shows a young man at war, but especially what it was like when he came home from war. And those are two special events that we're having in observance of Veterans Day. But lots more, please go to our website or check out one of our brochures at the back. Our website is aadl.org.
• [00:01:41.23] And tonight's event is also very special. We're going to learn about Ann Arbor's Greenbelt program. And here to tell us more is Ginny Trocchio from the Ann Arbor Greenbelt.
• [00:01:56.67] GINNY TROCCHIO: Thank you all for coming tonight. I know a lot of people might have been up late last night waiting for the election results. So I appreciate you guys coming out tonight.
• [00:02:05.02] We're very excited to be here tonight and to talk a little bit about that the Greenbelt program, as Tim had said. I'll provide a little bit of a background on the program and give you an idea of what we've been able to do today. But then I'll have my colleague Peg at [? Quorine ?] come up and introduce a couple of landowners that we've worked with that have preserved their properties to tell a little bit more about what they do on their property and their farm. And then we'll have time at the end for some question and answer.
• [00:02:29.91] So just as a little bit of a background, the Greenbelt program is a millage that was passed in 2003. It's a 30 year, 0.5 mill. And it's really just dedicated to land preservation and acquisition. A portion of the funds are used for parkland acquisitions within the city. But the majority of the funds are used for farmland and open space preservation outside of the city, which is commonly referred to as the Greenbelt program. Tonight, I'll really just concentrate on what's going on outside of the city limits. But a portion of the funds, as I said, are used for park acquisitions in the city.
• [00:03:06.42] So why a green belt? In 2003, when the Greenbelt millage was passed, it was really kind of the height of the development boom. Land outside the city was being converted to subdivisions. Between 2002 and 2007, the American Farmland Trust said that a farmland the size of Massachusetts was lost to development across the country, and we were seeing a lot of that here in Washtenaw County as well-- losing a lot of our farmland.
• [00:03:33.48] And so a lot of the conversations when the Greenbelt was first passed were kind of focused on urban sprawl. But I would say that the program has matured since then, and the impact, and our accomplishments, have grown well beyond just that. So when I talk about a property being preserved, oftentimes I'm asked what does that mean, or how do we do that?
• [00:03:56.60] The city is not purchasing land and farmland outside of the city. The city has no interest in being a landlord and leasing farmland out. So what we do is, you may have heard it called a purchase of development rights or purchasing of conservation easements. And those terms are kind of interchangeable. And when a conservation easement is placed on the property, the property remains in private ownership. So farmer still owns the property. But it really preserves the agricultural, the open space, the scenic, or the natural features on the property itself.
• [00:04:31.76] It's a very detailed document that goes into what's permitted and what's not allowed on the property. And it basically limits the amount of development that's allowed as well as making sure that there's no harm to any of the natural features on the property. And then, once a year, the city, myself, right now, contacts the landowners. And I go out. And we walk the property and make sure that those easements are being upheld.
• [00:05:00.65] So in 2005, the Greenbelt passed its first strategic plan as a way to really focus our acquisitions and our land preservation efforts. It's been updated a couple of times since then, first in 2009, and then the green belt commission has been undergoing a project this year of updating it. I would say that the major focus hasn't changed at the program, but they're have been tweaks along the way. Obviously, a lot has changed with our economy over the last couple of years.
• [00:05:30.33] And as the program matures, we make tweaks as we need to. But the major priority areas are building large blocks of farmland that's been protected. And that's really kind of a mix of farmland and open space protection, specifically, talking about the Huron River Watershed and being able to protect land along the Huron as well as creeks.
• [00:05:55.64] The Greenbelt, also one of the major priorities is leveraging funds and finding partners in the area. And this has been a major priority since we began. And I'll go into a little bit more in a few minutes. But we have been very successful in this area.
• [00:06:11.48] And then, this year, we also have had more discussions about conducting outreach to Ann Arbor residents as well as other Greenbelt landowners as a way to let people know what we're doing. So events like this, but also to bring Greenbelt landowners to keep the application process underway.
• [00:06:35.05] So as I said, the Greenbelt had kind of identified areas for major preservation efforts and different blocks where we wanted to focus. And the goal was to put together at least 1,000 acres in each of these blocks. And so this kind of outlines those five priority areas, one being in the Northwest part, the North Central, Salem and Superior there along the eastern part of the Greenbelt in the southwest and Lodi, I and then in the southern portion and Pittsfield Township.
• [00:07:04.96] So you can see in the Northwest and North of the Greenbelt, we've done quite a bit of activity. And we've been able to do over 1,000 acres. In Salem and Superior along the east, we're almost there. But I would say that these are just properties that the Greenbelt's been involved with. And there's a lot of other partners out there doing other things. And so along the Eastern side, there is more than 1,000 acres of contiguous land.
• [00:07:30.14] And then there are a couple of purchases that we've done outside of our strategic plan blocks, but those have been primarily with Washtenaw County parks where we've been able to partner with them. And it's now a county park.
• [00:07:44.38] So this is a map of the Greenbelt and what we've been able to do to date. So this Greenbelt, this green boundary here is our boundary. We have a designated specific area that we can work within.
• [00:07:57.95] The green properties here are properties that have been protected by another agency. So oftentimes, that could be a county preserve. That could be a local land Conservancy that has a conservation easement on another piece of property. And then these kind of peachy color ones are ones that the Greenbelt has been involved with.
• [00:08:14.63] So as you can see, here in the Northwest, we've had a lot of activity, just to the North side of the city, we've had a lot of activity. And then this is that area that I was talking about in the East, where we've done some projects with the southeast Michigan Land Conservancy and the county. But there's also a lot of other activity out there.
• [00:08:35.10] So just for a little bit of comparison purposes, this was all of the land preservation groups and Washtenaw County get together once a quarter. And this is what the map looked like in 2006, just a year after we started. So any property that's a color has been protected. And the different color is just designated by the different agencies that were involved.
• [00:08:59.93] But then looking at it today, this is what it looks like today. So again, each of the colors is just a different agency. But you can see, we've been able to do quite a bit. So again, 2006, and then the beginning of this year. And it will increase again by the end of this year.
• [00:09:21.63] As I said, one of our major priority areas is working with partners and being able to leverage the city dollars. And we've been very fortunate in this area. Four different agencies have millages that we've been able to work with.
• [00:09:37.20] Ann Arbor Township passed a land preservation, a farmland preservation, millage the same time that the city did. And that was a 20-year-millage. Scio township passed their millage in 2004, and that was a 10-year millage. That was on the ballot again yesterday, and that passed again by a significant margin. So we were very happy to hear that and be able to continue to work with them.
• [00:10:00.04] Webster township also passed a millage in 2005. That was probably our most rural township that had passed a millage for land preservation. That was a five year millage. And that was passed again and renewed in 2009. And then Washtenaw County has funds both for natural area preservation but also, recently, for agricultural preservation as well. And so we've worked with them on a number of projects.
• [00:10:27.90] So in addition to the millages and local partners, there's a couple other townships and land conservancies that we've been able to work with. Lodi Township has contributed some funds for each project that we do in their township. Salem Township, this year, was the first time that they committed $200,000 of their general fund money to land preservation. And so we're currently working on projects with them and hope to close on them by the end of the year.
• [00:10:55.63] Legacy Land Conservancy, we've worked with them on two projects-- one where they've contributed some funds towards a project that we did. And one where they had an easement that was being donated but couldn't cover the acquisition cost. So doing due diligence. And we were able to partner with them on that.
• [00:11:13.91] And then this year, also, we worked with Southeast Michigan Land Conservancy on a couple of really innovative projects. This map over here to the right is Southeast Michigan Land Conservancy's superior Greenway that they've been working on. And this was the area that I mentioned out on the East side of the Greenbelt.
• [00:11:34.51] So there's this property here that they have been looking to protect for a number of years. It's now called the Jack Smiley preserve. It's named after their founder. And it's one where we worked with both the Southeast Michigan Land Conservancy and Washtenaw County to purchase the land and put a conservation easement on it.
• [00:11:53.12] And we've worked with Washtenaw on the Meyer preserve over here as well. So although Southeast Michigan Land Conservancy had kind of started to build this block, we've been able to work with our partners, and contribute, and add to that.
• [00:12:07.47] We've also been very successful with securing funds from USDA. They have a program that contributes up to 50% of funds to purchase the conservation easements. It's called the Farmland and Ranchland Protection Program. So we've been able to secure, I think, almost $7 million from that over the last five years. And we're still waiting for the farm bill to be passed but hope that it continues.
• [00:12:35.03] And then we've also worked with landowners. Oftentimes, landowners can make a below fair market value contribution. So if we have an appraisal for x amount, and they take a price that's less than that, then that's considered a donation. And there's some tax benefits for them to be able to do that.
• [00:12:54.25] So as we all know that this is probably not a surprise to anyone, but we've seen drastic change in the real estate market over the last five years. So when we first started, we were seeing appraisals coming in, on average, about $16,000 an acre. Currently, it's around $3,000 or $4,000 for the development rights.
• [00:13:21.12] In addition, when we first started, obviously, partially because of the high prices, but also just fewer partners that we had available to work with, we had a lower percent match. So the percent match is the percent of funds coming from outside of the city. So the first couple years, we were averaging about 20% or 30% coming from outside. Now, this year, we're averaging about 60%. If you take the whole five years together, it's averaged about 50%. So basically, for every dollar that the city has put in, another dollar has come from somewhere else.
• [00:13:54.41] SPEAKER 1: Because usually the federal government is the 50% matching fund? Or do we get something from Washtenaw County?
• [00:14:00.05] GINNY TROCCHIO: It's from all of those sources, all those partners, that I talked about. It could be a combination of two or three different ones. It could be the federal government, local partners, land conservancies, everything.
• [00:14:11.27] SPEAKER 1: Thank you. OK.
• [00:14:14.20] GINNY TROCCHIO: So then, obviously, if you combine those two together, the city's cost, on a per acre basis, has gone down dramatically-- so averaging between $10,000 and $12,000 an acre when we first started-- the city's costs have dropped to about $2,000 an acre because of our partners and because the prices are different.
• [00:14:33.80] So what have we been able to do today? As I mentioned, we've got about 3,700 acres protected currently. We hope to have that over 4,000 by the end of the year. We've been able to leverage $19 million dollars, so bringing that money into the city to help offset some of our costs.
• [00:14:54.62] And another thing we've seen over the last several years is really being able to facilitate that transfer of ownership to other farmers. So there have been a couple of deals when the property was owned by a developer that was holding it. We were able to purchase a conservation easement on the property. That brought the value down and made it available, or cost-effective, for a farmer to go in and buy it. And that's happened on a number of our properties.
• [00:15:21.30] We've also preserved portions of the Huron River Watershed. Oftentimes, there's wetlands. There may be creeks along some of these properties. We've done quite a bit along Arms Creek in the Northwest part of the city, or Northwest of the city.
• [00:15:34.66] There were also a couple of properties that we've protected that were once slated for really large developments that were going to have waste water treatment plants on the site that were going to be emptying into the Huron River.
• [00:15:46.54] Those are now protected. No more residential can be built on the site. It can't be subdivided. So that's another way that we've been able to help preserve the watershed.
• [00:16:01.20] So if folks are interested in getting involved, we do have monthly commission meetings the first Thursday of every month. And we do have a couple of openings coming up next year. There's going to be a couple of commissioners that are term-limited. So if anyone might be interested, Dan Ezekiel is our current chair, so please talk to him and find out more information.
• [00:16:25.71] We also are trying to do more and more of these types of events. We an annual bus tour every fall, taking people out to these sites-- again, being able to meet the landowners, get on the properties and walk them. So be on the lookout for those. It's typically some Saturday in September when there's not a home game.
• [00:16:46.18] And if anyone has land outside of the city that's in our Greenbelt, and you're interest in preserving the property, obviously, you can talk to me. I'd be glad to talk to you. There's also some local events that we often have tables and information. So if you're interested in learning what's been happening with us, check us out. And here's my contact information. And I will ask Peg to come up and introduce our landowners.
• [00:17:15.29] PEG KOHRING: It's such a pleasure to introduce the landowners to you. The first one I'd like to introduce is the first one who has done a purchase of development right. We have Tom Bloomer tonight here. His wife Roseanne was not able to join us.
• [00:17:32.66] In 2005, they put 152 acres into the Greenbelt. And they were the Guinea pig. And so they worked us through all the bugs on it. There is still a few bugs, by the time we got to the Weedmeier [? Lindeman ?] farm as well. But they helped us through those.
• [00:17:51.29] So Tom's farm is in Webster township. That's where we have the most acreage, kind of in the Northwest corner of the realm of the Greenbelt. And it is on Northfield Church Road, north of Joy and South of North territorial.
• [00:18:12.91] We do have a map of the farm right there. That's Tom's farm. So you can take a look at that one. And we also have Karen [? Weedmeier ?] and Bill Lindeman here. In 2011, they put 110 acres into the Greenbelt. Their property is located in Lodi Township. And we're just thrilled to have that property because Lodi is one of the most agricultural counties still around. So we're just tickled pink that the they've opened the door for us to talk with a number of landowners in Lodi Township.
• [00:18:55.24] So I'm going to invite Karen, Bill, and Tom up here. And we look forward to hearing a few minutes from now as to why they preserved their farm, what it meant to you. And then we'd be very happy to take questions from the audience. So--
• [00:19:21.62] [APPLAUSE]
• [00:19:26.35] PEG KOHRING: So Tom, would you like to go first?
• [00:19:29.12] Sure, do I have a choice?
• [00:19:31.34] PEG KOHRING: No.
• [00:19:35.91] So I guess the first question is, why preserve the farm? Well, our farm, that's how I earn my living. It's our business. And that's how we look at it, as a business. It's not just the place where we live. But it's how we sustain ourselves.
• [00:20:02.56] And during the height of the speculative era of land values, it was pretty hard for agriculture to compete against the inflated values that were being attached to farmland. And as a business, really, we had to consider whether we would stay in the Ann Arbor area, stay in Washtenaw County, or eventually sort of be not really driven out, but just, it became harder and harder to justify lower agricultural values in face of really high speculative land values.
• [00:21:00.76] The Ann Arbor Greenbelt gave us an opportunity to ensure that we were able to remain competitive in a pretty active real estate market and remain competitive with farmland. And so I'd always felt that it was a good kind of program. It had been done in other places. And we'd watched it being done in other places. And we wanted to do it here.
• [00:21:32.45] So that's sort of, in a nutshell, that's why we did it. What we do on our farm is we raise partly just regular commodity crops. But we also raise popcorn that we market all over the country. And we raise food-grade soybeans that we market as well. And we do that marketing ourselves, as well as some wholesaling. So we have a fairly diversified operation, and that's what we do there.
• [00:22:10.26] PEG KOHRING: I neglected to mention that Tom serves on the Greenbelt commission as our farmer representative so my apologies there.
• [00:22:18.08] TOM BLOOMER: It's OK.
• [00:22:19.29] PEG KOHRING: That's good. You can even say the name of your product, if you want to.
• [00:22:24.78] TOM BLOOMER: Oh, well, it's complicated, but our trade name is Burr-Oaks Farm. And our farm was named long before we owned it. It's just something we assumed. It used to be a burr oak plain back before Europeans settled the area. And that's the source of the name of the land there.
• [00:22:51.85] PEG KOHRING: Bill and Karen?
• [00:22:54.49] BILL LINDEMANN: Our farm is approximately 104 years old. It's been in the same family-- my dad and my grandpa. My dad passed away in--
• [00:23:07.57] KAREN WEIDMAYER: 2007.
• [00:23:08.63] BILL LINDEMANN: Yeah. And at the time, when the Greenbelt was formed, he sent me down to the Lodi Township. I believe you came out for a meeting. And he sent me down there. And it was myself and another farmer there. And the next morning we talked about it, me and my dad. I worked with him on the farm. But that's not my full-time job. I was an Ann Arbor fireman for 26 years.
• [00:23:32.11] And my dad never-- he was interested, but I don't know why he didn't want to go ahead and do it. I don't know if he was afraid he was going to make me and my sister mad or what. I don't know what he was after. But then he passed. And then a few years later, my mother passed in '10.
• [00:23:47.82] And I was down at the township office one day. And somebody had sent us an email down there that they were interested in Greenbelt property in Lodi. So I called my sister up. And we get along very good together. So--
• [00:24:04.89] KAREN WEIDMAYER: And I guess after mother passed, we were cleaning the house out. And there sat an application for the Greenbelt. He had started it but not really finished it. And the door was opened. And we decided it was probably the wishes of our parents to preserve this ground because it's been there for as long as I can remember. So that's how it got started.
• [00:24:29.37] BILL LINDEMANN: It's a green farm. Years ago, when I farmed with my dad and the fire department, we had cattle, and sheep, and hogs, and pigs, and--
• [00:24:40.03] KAREN WEIDMAYER: Milk cows.
• [00:24:41.00] BILL LINDEMANN: Milk cows, and corn wheat, beans, hay, but then we had a few barn fires. And as we had the fires, we got just down to cash crops. And over the last five years, six years now, all I grow on it is soybeans and wheat.
• [00:24:58.16] I just couldn't see building houses on it. That's not what my dad wanted. And I'm not that greedy. I don't want to sell it to a developer. Plus, we still have the option. When I'm 67 years old, I have the option, me and her, my sister, that if I don't want to farm no more, we could sell it to another farmer. I have already got somebody interested and ready, so.
• [00:25:20.47] KAREN WEIDMAYER: And the property has a beautiful Creek that runs from Pleasant Lake Road all the way to the very end of our property, the Ellsworth Road. So it's a beautiful setting. And right now, in between Ann Arbor and Celine. So there's housing developments across the road, and up the road, so we just kind of felt that this is what our parents wished. So that's what we carried out their wishes.
• [00:25:51.13] PEG KOHRING: Good. Now it's your turn to ask questions. Tim will bring around the mic when you have questions.
• [00:25:59.75] TIM GRIMES: If anyone has a question, just raise their hand. I'll come right around. OK, right over here. Hang on.
• [00:26:09.38] AUDIENCE: What's the difference between a hog and a pig.
• [00:26:13.91] BILL LINDEMANN: A pig is newborn and hog is a full grown. But we don't have them any more. I probably should know either.
• [00:26:27.59] TIM GRIMES: Anything else? OK, right here.
• [00:26:32.94] AUDIENCE: I came in late, sorry. But I was just interested in where your farm is located. It's off Pleasant Lake Road?
• [00:26:42.31] BILL LINDEMANN: It's about a mile and a half up off the Saline Ann Arbor Road. It's on Pleasant Lake Road. If you know where the fairgrounds are on Saline Ann Arbor, it's just up Pleasant Lake Road about a mile and a half. It's the first farm on the north side of the road.
• [00:26:55.14] AUDIENCE: OK, I missed the important parts of what is going to be sustained for Greenbelt and how that is. But I can ask you another time.
• [00:27:05.39] PEG KOHRING: And so what we have is 4,000 acres of conservation easements and protected reserves, so the land will always stay protected. So the conservation easements continue in private ownership. Some of the properties, like the Fox preserve, that we've done jointly with the county, those are open for visitation or visitors for those preserves through the Washtenaw County system.
• [00:27:40.44] AUDIENCE: Is that still going on? That if you have a farm, you could possibly put that into a greenbelt?
• [00:27:48.42] PEG KOHRING: In fact, Ginny and I were just talking just a few minutes ago-- we're getting ready for the next, if the farm bill passes, ohala, we will be able to do another cycle farmland preservation. So very much so, we have about $3 to $4 million left.
• [00:28:08.96] AUDIENCE: I just need $1 million.
• [00:28:10.78] PEG KOHRING: Well, that would be OK. Just give us a couple hundred acres, and we'd be glad to talk. Yes, no, we're very, very active. Our objective is filling in 1,000 acres per township. We have two townships, Ann Arbor, and the Webster area that we have that are blocked that we have the 1,000 acres. There are a couple-- we really would love to get 1,000 acres in the Lodi township for sure. Because you can safely drive a tractor on those roads. You know you have a future in farming.
• [00:28:46.25] TIM GRIMES: Someone else? OK, I'm going to right up here.
• [00:28:54.00] AUDIENCE: This is for a Ginny. Or you might be able to answer it, too. You mentioned that the original plan was developed in 2005, the strategic plan, and that there have been changes in 2009 and currently. What kind of caused those changes? Are did you get community input, or why were those changes made?
• [00:29:12.95] GINNY TROCCHIO: In 2009, we looked at updating it primarily because that was a big change in the real estate market and the economy. We were also noticing a lot more interest from newer beginning farmers. Prior to that, we had really focused on larger pieces of land because those are the ones that qualified for the federal grants.
• [00:29:32.60] The federal grants required at least 40 acres or greater. And in order to be competitive, you really had to have more than that, or more than 40 acres. And that was our greatest source of matching funds, and a large percentage of that. So the commission was looking at how can we also look at a diversity of types of different farmland, or sizes, and help support some of those larger or smaller farms as well. So I'd say now, I'm trying to think of the range of acreage. It probably goes down to 25 or 30 acres all the way up to over 200.
• [00:30:08.38] And then, again, we just, like I said, the Greenbelt's kind of going through the process right now, we are trying to get some input from our partners on those updates. And a lot of that is looking at the next phase of the Greenbelt because the city bonded for some of the funds up front. And the idea was that acquisition would be really, really heavy in the first, probably, 10 years of the program. That there would still be acquisition later on. But a lot of the funds, there would be fewer funds available, so it may be just one or two projects a year versus 8 to 12, what we're doing right now. And so looking at the long term sustainability of the program, what do we do to do outreach events like this or the bus tour that we do? And also how do we just maintain that contact with Greenbelt landowners so that we have that concept source of deals to do.
• [00:31:05.61] TIM GRIMES: I think there was a question over here, was there? Hang on.
• [00:31:10.62] AUDIENCE: I wanted to ask the panelists what they see as the future of farming in the [INAUDIBLE] of Ann Arbor. How do you think it may change in the future?
• [00:31:26.59] TOM BLOOMER: You said the--?
• [00:31:29.89] AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]
• [00:31:33.20] BILL LINDEMANN: Larger farms. I think the days of the small farmers are growing to a close. The farm age average is probably mid '60s now for farmers, something around there. And the children don't want your continue on. So they're being bought up either as development or other farmers are buying them up. And they are turning themselves into mega farms, I guess if you want to call it. That's what's happening, I think.
• [00:32:04.79] TOM BLOOMER: I guess I have a slightly different view of that. I think one of the benefits of something like Greenbelt program is that it provides the stability of the resource, which is the farmland, so that it makes it possible to attract new operators. In a declining industry, as people leave the industry, no one wants to enter it.
• [00:32:40.53] We saw that with the auto industry in Michigan. The average age of a Michigan auto worker is actually over 60. So not much different than farmers.
• [00:32:59.73] But I think we're seeing that change now as we've seen reinvestment in the auto industry. We have fewer, but newer, employees. And I think the same thing holds true for agriculture in that where you have stability in the land base, and people see a future, you will have new operators.
• [00:33:25.95] There won't be as many as there were before. Agriculture is no different than any other industry. There's continual concentration in the economy throughout. And agriculture can't divorce itself from that. So I agree with that.
• [00:33:40.06] But I don't know that the only thing that can happen is just really large farms. I think there's room for different kinds of operations. There's room for everybody. And one of the things that happens when you have a community like Ann Arbor, which is really a pretty good community in terms of being aware of food, I think that opens markets for people to do different things. And stabilizing the land base is the first step in sort of redeveloping the agricultural economy in a certain area.
• [00:34:23.24] We're going to see larger farms. But I think we'll also see opportunities for smaller operations, too, because of the vibrancy of the Ann Arbor economy. That's just how I view it.
• [00:34:36.87] GINNY TROCCHIO: And just one thing I wanted to add to what Tom was just talking about. One of the easements things that we partnered with Ann Arbor Township on did help facilitate that transition to a new farmer. The farmer had been working some land that was owned by the Ann Arbor Township. You may be familiar with the [? Toland ?] Farm Development Center. They had been working there, and were able to expand their business, and purchase the land after the city in the township purchased a conservation easement. So we've seen some of that in this area, definitely.
• [00:35:06.35] TIM GRIMES: We have someone else here.
• [00:35:08.45] AUDIENCE: One of the programs that I had heard about from USDA, particularly with Mrs. Obama, she was talking about linking farms to schools. Has there been any discussion with the farms here in Washtenaw County about doing that? Have you heard that amongst your colleagues? Or are they linking with local schools? So the theory here is that you have an immediate demand, and you have nearby suppliers.
• [00:35:39.69] TOM BLOOMER: Well, that works for certain commodities. If you grow vegetables or things that are readily consumed in a local market, farm to school contacts or trade is happening. It doesn't happen for all of agriculture because not all products are appropriate for that kind of connection.
• [00:36:08.14] But Ann Arbor and many school systems in Washtenaw County and, actually, throughout the state, are pursuing active programs of linking farms directly to schools, particularly where we are talking about fresh vegetables.
• [00:36:28.74] GINNY TROCCHIO: There is another nonprofit organization called the Food System Economic Partnership, or FSOP, that's been working on that. They've been working with the Ann Arbor schools, and Chelsea schools, and a lot of schools throughout southeast Michigan for their food service directors to be able to purchase food directly from farmers. So it's not something the Greenbelt is necessarily focused on, but there certainly is that happening in this area.
• [00:36:52.27] TIM GRIMES: Someone else? OK.
• [00:36:56.48] AUDIENCE: Are some of these areas open to residents to see?
• [00:37:04.02] GINNY TROCCHIO: Most of the farmland is still in private ownership. And there's not public access. That's one of the reasons why we do like to do the bus tour, and go to different sites every year, because it gives some public residents an opportunity to do that. We have worked with Washtenaw County on to several of the preserves. And those are all open to the public.
• [00:37:23.36] So if you're familiar with Scio Woods, that's down in Scio Township alongside Scio Church Road, the Fox Science Preserve, also in Scio Township. And that's a state where the Ann Arbor schools bring their students for geology class or a field trip.
• [00:37:39.40] And then there are the other couple ones that I talked about with the superior green way, with Southeast Michigan Land Conservancy along the East Side of the Greenbelt along Prospect road. And that whole area there, actually, all along Prospect road, the intent is to build trails along there. So there'll be public access from Geddes Road all the way up to Cherry Hill.
• [00:38:02.57] TIM GRIMES: Anyone else? OK, right back here again.
• [00:38:12.37] AUDIENCE: Yeah, you mentioned that Tom is the farm representative on the Greenbelt commission. Could you tell me who else is represented, or not necessarily who, but what groups are represented?
• [00:38:23.23] GINNY TROCCHIO: Yeah, so the commission has two representatives from environmental organizations, one farmer, one developer, one city council, three public at large, who am I missing?
• [00:38:40.44] [? AUDIENCE: Is there a ?] [? Biologist. ?]
• [00:38:42.21] GINNY TROCCHIO: Oh, a biologist, thank you, yes. Thanks Dan.
• [00:38:48.45] TIM GRIMES: Another question?
• [00:38:51.15] GINNY TROCCHIO: Peg had asked which positions will be opening up next year. There's a public at large. There's a farmer a representative and an environmental organization representative.
• [00:39:07.69] TIM GRIMES: OK, another question here?
• [00:39:10.63] AUDIENCE: If somebody wanted to enter into farming, whether it be just agricultural, or animals, or even fish in the stream that was between Pleasant Road, and so forth, how would you tell them to start out or go about doing it, especially in these hard economic times? People don't have a whole lot of money to start up businesses, and educate themselves, and get that done.
• [00:39:41.28] BILL LINDEMANN: You'd better have a lot of money to start with.
• [00:39:43.24] KAREN WEIDMAYER: Or a good loan officer.
• [00:39:45.02] BILL LINDEMANN: Or a good loan officer. It's very hard. I don't know. I was very fortunate. I had my grandpa and my dad. I don't know where you'd start, to be honest, God's truth. It'd take a lot of money. And you can probably answer that better than I can.
• [00:40:05.56] TOM BLOOMER: Well, it does happen.
• [00:40:07.58] BILL LINDEMANN: It happens. But it's hard. And you get these magazines in the mail ever now and then. And they feature farms. And it will be smaller farmers starting up. And they lived in a city, and they come out in the country. And they go into a specialized crop.
• [00:40:23.11] Well, that's fine and dandy. But if you read the article real close, one of them, either the man or the woman, has a full time job with benefits back in the city. And that's what's paying the bills. Until you get that place going, there's a certain start up time. Without that second job and benefits, I think it would be awful hard to do nowadays. Taxes that eat you up. Just seed chemicals, it's unbelievable how it's gone up over the years-- fuel.
• [00:41:04.19] TOM BLOOMER: It does happen, though.
• [00:41:06.32] BILL LINDEMANN: It happens.
• [00:41:07.24] TOM BLOOMER: And there are ways to do it. I guess my advice to someone is, the first skill you need is, it has nothing to do with agricultural at all, really, but good reading and writing skills because you need to do a lot of research. And you need to do a lot of reading. You need the same skills that any other business requires. And that's the starting point.
• [00:41:50.19] It's a very complicated issue, but people do accomplish it. It takes a lot of gumption, and a lot of willpower. But that's true of starting any kind of enterprise. I don't know if it's any easier to start a grocery store, or a hardware store, or anything. I mean, it all takes a lot of capital, and a lot of vision, and a lot of luck.
• [00:42:18.55] BILL LINDEMANN: You also have got to remember, you're at the mercy of the weather.
• [00:42:22.29] TOM BLOOMER: That was the luck part.
• [00:42:25.19] BILL LINDEMANN: And this year was a real deal. My dad and my grandpa never believed in crop insurance. And for some reason, I don't know why--
• [00:42:36.73] KAREN WEIDMAYER: It was your sister.
• [00:42:38.43] BILL LINDEMANN: It was my sister. My sister encouraged me to get crop insurance this year, which I did.
• [00:42:47.71] KAREN WEIDMAYER: Well, probably because my husband and I own a farm near Manchester.
• [00:42:51.78] BILL LINDEMANN: A bigger farm than what the Lindemann farm is.
• [00:42:54.07] KAREN WEIDMAYER: And I can give you an example of starting out. We have a son that's a little over 40 years old. He works for Washtenaw County Road Commission. He's worked on the farm forever. So he works from the road commission, and, at night, he works at the farm trying to get enough money to hopefully take over our, I think, we have about 350 acres of farm ground that we raise crops on and cattle.
• [00:43:18.31] So he's easing into it. He probably thinks he should probably inherit some of it also. But he's got to have enough money to support us, too. So that's one example of how you pass that generation on if you are a farmer with a son. So that's what we're doing right now.
• [00:43:38.24] BILL LINDEMANN: Unfortunately, I've got three daughters. So when the Lindemann's is done, it's done for the Lindemann farm, unless her boy comes down and buys it.
• [00:43:52.37] TIM GRIMES: Someone else? OK, right up here. Hang on just a moment.
• [00:43:58.46] AUDIENCE: Thank you. Forgive me, I'm a little bit confused on one point. So the easements contain property that continues to be cultivated if that's what the farmer wishes? OK. Or would it also possibly be uncultivated property that's with natural beauty as well? I mean, is it either or? I'm a little confused. It continues to be farmed even if it's a part of the easement?
• [00:44:29.72] GINNY TROCCHIO: Right.
• [00:44:30.23] AUDIENCE: OK.
• [00:44:30.55] GINNY TROCCHIO: And so typically, most of the properties are not 100% one or the other. So it's a combination of farmland, and woodlands, and streams, and everything. So can see from the aerial here that there's still-- this is the Lindemann farm. There's still a lot that is tilled and that would continue to be in agricultural production.
• [00:44:53.32] We don't mandate that has to be in agricultural production. But it just can't be subdivided. You can't do anything to the soil that would prevent it from being able to be tilled in the future. And then the easement also spells out whatever natural features are on the property to make sure that those are preserved as well. So the woodlands can't be clear cut, they have to be managed appropriately.
• [00:45:14.93] AUDIENCE: Even by new ownership, then, obviously. They would agree to the conservancy terms.
• [00:45:21.38] BILL LINDEMANN: And we still pay the property tax. We still pay taxes on it.
• [00:45:28.92] TOM BLOOMER: But it's important to remember that the easements become part of the deed. So it's a permanent easement that lasts forever.
• [00:45:44.48] BILL LINDEMANN: All you can do is, if you want to sell it, you sell it to another farmer.
• [00:45:50.71] KAREN WEIDMAYER: Or someone that's doesn't develop it.
• [00:45:52.77] BILL LINDEMANN: Right. They just want to buy it and--
• [00:45:59.05] TIM GRIMES: OK, we're going to go right back here again.
• [00:46:02.24] BILL LINDEMANN: This is not going to be another pig one, is it?
• [00:46:06.22] AUDIENCE: No, you mentioned the property taxes. I was under the assumption that you guys were non for profit and taking a paycheck. Apparently I'm mistaken about that.
• [00:46:18.67] TOM BLOOMER: What's that again?
• [00:46:19.79] AUDIENCE: Not for profit, a 501c3, or something like that for any educational, horticultural, some benefit to the community for doing this. [INAUDIBLE] corporation. I thought your corporation was a not for profit corporation.
• [00:46:38.21] TOM BLOOMER: No, my farm is a business. I pay property taxes and income tax. And that's how I earn my living.
• [00:46:47.81] AUDIENCE: Yeah, and individuals do that. But the corporation doesn't. The corporation can own the property.
• [00:46:54.86] TOM BLOOMER: Well, I mean, the farms can be organized any number of different ways, as any business can. Some are corporations. Some are just sole proprietorships. But they're not nonprofit organizations. They are businesses.
• [00:47:19.14] AUDIENCE: Thank you.
• [00:47:21.01] GINNY TROCCHIO: The city is the one that holds the actual conservation easement. So we just have the right to go out there, and monitor, and enforce the easement.
• [00:47:30.88] TIM GRIMES: OK, and we have another question over here.
• [00:47:33.82] AUDIENCE: Did I miss this point because I was late, but how does one do this? If one has 88 acres, and they want to do this.
• [00:47:46.43] GINNY TROCCHIO: We have an application process that we review them on an ongoing basis. So there's an application that's submitted to me. And I do the scoring. The Greenbelt has selected a different criteria and scoring system. So I score that. I then take it to the Greenbelt commission. And then they made their recommendations to city council, whether we move forward, and it meets our priorities, or it doesn't. If it does, then it's a lengthy process. I would say, at best, right now six to nine months. But it can certainly take over a year.
• [00:48:27.76] TIM GRIMES: Anyone else? Did you guys have some final words? I don't see any more questions.
• [00:48:39.06] GINNY TROCCHIO: I just want to thank everyone for coming tonight. And There's information out there on the table from some of our partners as well-- the legacy land conservancy and Washtenaw County Parks. And again, if anybody has any other questions, or I encourage you to get involved with the Greenbelt commission or come to our monthly meetings as well and stay in touch with what we're doing.
• [00:49:03.27] TIM GRIMES: Thank. You.